#NPMC chat - September 2015

Welcome to #NPMC chat! Our topic today: overcoming the overhead myth  http://ow.ly/SzbTH 

#NPMC using twubs today new experience

RT @mo_flow My tweet volume will spike for the next hour as I join #NPMC Chat for nonprofit marketers and communicators.

Let’s start with introductions. Please tell us a little about you. I'm Marlene Oliveira, of @NPMarCommunity, #NPMC chat and other stuff. :)

Indeed it shall! Please follow along if you are an NPO/NGO/Charitable Organisation! #NPMC  https://twitter.com/mo_flow/status/647092948065230848 …

My tweet volume will spike (exist?) for the next hour as I join #NPMC Chat for nonprofit marketers and communicators.

Dennis Fischman of Communicate! Consulting. I help nonprofits make loyal friends through their communications. #NPMC

Heads up to my followers, probably going to be posting more than usual for the next hour for #npmc. (You should join in!)

Marnie Grona Dir of MarCom here behind the @ImagineCanada twitter handle #NPMC

We have special guests from @ImagineCanada today to help us talk overhead, incl VP @stephenf84, SVP @CathyBarr & Marnie Grona #NPMC

Hi all! I'm Heather, Comms Specialist and tweeter for @abclifeliteracy - excited to be joining today's chat! #NPMC

I'm Erin Brown-John of @DanceUK @youthdance @N_D_T_A and @ADAD_Dance! #npmc

.@mo_flow 2 1st thoughts: we need to talk about value creation and perception. When NFPs are seen as For Purpose this will help. #NPMC

I work with faith-based #charitable organisations and NPOs #NPMC

Nice to see @OPgrrl @eebeejay @DennisFischman @mayawalkca already. Also @ReedStockman? Welcome! #NPMC

@mo_flow @ImagineCanada @stephenf84 @CathyBarr how exciting is that! #NPMC #welcome :)

#NPMC I'm Reed and I curate content for members for AFP via the Resource Center

@mo_flow @OPgrrl @eebeejay @DennisFischman @ReedStockman howdy #NPMC-ers :)

@AmyCoupal Welcom to the chat! #NPMC

Hello, #NPMC. RoiAnn here. I manage comms for @HealthConnctOne, facilitating and promoting community health worker programs for moms/babies.

As introductions flow in, let's get started...#NPMC

.@mo_flow I'm a CEO of affiliated charity and NFP. We see more push back on overhead in the charity side. #NPMC @NPMarCommunity

Q1. Does does the focus on nonprofit overhead/admin/operating costs affect yr org & your communications? How? #NPMC

For those new to #NPMC chat, we’re using Q/A format - we post questions using Q1, Q2, etc. You respond by using A1, A2, etc. Thx!

Hi everybody, just joining #NPMC. My marketing firm @RampedUp has a wide range of non-profit clients and today's topic is great!

@AmyCoupal How so? #NPMC

Tip: use #NPMC tag and if you want to be RTd, make sure your tweet is 120c or less to give room for the RT.

MT @mayawalkca: I work with bullshit-based #charitable organisations and NPOs #NPMC

@mo_flow A1 Complicated in my context - often it is the elephant in the room and has not been fully explored #NPMC

A1 Yes. Conversations get stuck on cost, not the outcomes/impact of organization’s work. #NPMC

A1. I see orgs trying to "do it all" inside w/o outside services, time's spent but w/o expertise brand/results are impacted #NPMC

@mayawalkca And what challenges arise from not exploring it? #NPMC

.@mo_flow More ?s re how $s are spent and what is seen as valuable in terms of how organizations deliver. Transparency is key. #NPMC

Q1 Clients want to improve comms, but takes time to show ROI. Stress on overhead can lead to focus on short-term results. #NPMC

@mo_flow A1. great question - I think not discussing it leaves vision & mission unexplored. Reinforces comfort in current #inertia #NPMC

A1 Yes - especially around fundraising/individual giving campaigns. Communications must clearly state where funds are being directed #NPMC

#npmc A1 yes, a fixation on expenses can take the focus away from impact.

#NPMC the idea of comparing apples to apples is part of the complication as folks don't use the same formulas and/or criteria

@shelleymayer I've seen that too. Plus, when staff try to do it all themselves, frustration and burnout can result. #NPMC

Hearing that while we agree w/transparency, focus on expense limits our ability to communicate impact, outcomes, bring in skills...#NPMC

Q2. How would your org/comms *benefit* if we successfully moved focus away from overhead? What would be different? #NPMC

MT @ReedStockman #NPMC the idea of comparing apples to apples is part of the complication as folks don't use the same formulas/criteria

A2 We could spend more time on #marcom that supports and furthers our core missions. #NPMC

RT @ImagineCanada A1 Yes. Conversations get stuck on cost, not the outcomes/impact of organization’s work. #NPMC

@shelleymayer thx for he follow & great to meet you during #NPMC!

Yes! RT @ImagineCanada A2 We could spend more time on #marcom that supports and furthers our core missions. #NPMC

@mo_flow Honestly, though, some of my favorite orgs so small it's being able to pay that's the barrier, not stress on overhead %. #NPMC

@mo_flow A2. If it's our #ElephantIntheRoom discussing it would open door to more #intention to explore #Mission #NPMC

A2 As a national org we have more overhead / less on the ground delivery, bc our mandate is as the "connector" for the lit field... #NPMC

@DennisFischman Good point! #NPMC

@ImagineCanada well said :) #NPMC

A2 con't - this means it's harder for us to drive successful generate grassroots funding campaigns to generate revenue #NPMC

A2. I think it is moving away from overhead and focusing more on ROI, also long term ROI #NPMC

@heather_cos Then so-called overhead is mission delivery! #NPMC

Agreed. #NPMC  http://twitter.com/shelleymayer/status/647098559863517184 …

@heather_cos is that a named tension in your context? #NPMC

@mo_flow #NPMC well said

#npmc A2 We could focus more on what organizations are accomplishing toward their goals and begin to better measure and articulate impact.

So, we want to talk about mission/impact, instead of admin expenses! #NPMC

@mo_flow @heather_cos paradox is it is can also be the road block - does that make sense? #NPMC

A2 In US, retention rate for new donors ~30%. (In Canada?) Less focus on overhead = more chance to renew those donors. #NPMC

Absolutely. #NPMC  http://twitter.com/mo_flow/status/647098976072781824 …

Q2b. If we could magically erase overhead, what specific things would your supporters want to hear from your org? #NPMC

@mo_flow @heather_cos I agree! If my position is folded into project-specific grants, then am I "stealing" time for core mission work? #NPMC

#communications often lumped into overhead but sometimes that is fundamental to the mission/impact #NPMC #nonprofit #marketing

MT @OPgrrl: If my position is folded into project-specific grants, then am I "stealing" time for core mission work? #NPMC

@DennisFischman that's a great stat - do you have a source? Would love to know the #Canadian equivalent too #NPMC

Yes, it is! MT @shelleymayer #communications often lumped into overhead but sometimes that is fundamental to the mission/impact #NPMC

@Kelgon Hi Kelly! #NPMC

@mo_flow A2b: practical and & impassioned ways to live out #Mission & #Vision that affect real life, real people! #NPMC

.@mo_flow Hello! Sorry I'm late but glad I made it #NPMC

A2b. What is different because of your work? What changed because you are here? #NPMC

Oh, love this so much. RT @CathyBarr A2b. What is different because of your work? What changed because you are here? #NPMC

Agreed. RT @ImagineCanada: A2 We could spend more time on #marcom that supports and furthers our core missions. #NPMC

@mayawalkca Isn't it amazing? Find the stat at  http://www.urban.org/research/publication/donor-retention-matters …. I discuss implications at  http://fundraisingcoach.com/2015/08/13/communicate-renew-donors/ …. #NPMC

We've talked about the freedom to communicate based on ROI, impact, accomplishments, difference we made. #NPMC #NPMC

A1 I'm not usually part of overhead discussions but as mktg specialist I try to keep costs minimal anyway #NPMC

How To Promote Your Content Through Social Ads Effectively  http://bit.ly/1OMblLX  via @kikolani #npmc #sm4sg

Q3. What would your supporters/stakeholders need to believe, value for that freedom to be a reality? #NPMC

@DennisFischman that's awesome - thanks! #NPMC

another misunderstood aspect of OH, in multi level #nonprofit, top supports/enables service delivery & so of course they have high OH #NPMC

@mo_flow Great question! #NPMC

A3 p1 Humans tend to look for shortcuts when making decisions or evaluating an org. A reason why #overhead ratios & rankings persist. #NPMC

#npmc A3 That real impact requires real investment - we are collectively addressing some of the most challenging issues facing society.

A3. It all comes down to trust #NPMC they want to know there isn't waste which is different from OH

I believe one A3. is that nonprofits need infrastructure just as any other enterprise would! #NPMC

A3 p2 To get donors past the #overhead ratio, ongoing convos, information & transparency is key. #NPMC

A3 Investment in long-term change - our cause, literacy, is not "sexy". The change is slow - it's happening but it's a long road ahead #NPMC

@mo_flow A3 that everything would be okay if #FallingForward were part of the task to share #Mission #NPMC

@mo_flow Yes also this! And practical things like money to keep the lights one, support staff, etc. #NPMC

@stephenf84 totally agree! #NPMC

True MT @ImagineCanada A3 p1 Humans tend to look for shortcuts when evaluating an org. A reason why #overhead ratios/rankings persist. #NPMC

@heather_cos great to meet another @queensualumni during #NPMC :)

MT @stephenf84 #npmc A3 That real impact requires real investment - we collectively address some of the most challenging issues in society.

A3 Much of the #overhead convo is linked to #trust in charities & the need for good & consistent comms between donors & orgs. #NPMC

A3. They would need to believe that we are really making a difference and be willing to stay with us for the long term. #NPMC

RT @CathyBarr A3. They would need to believe that we are really making a difference and be willing to stay with us for the long term. #NPMC

A3 Answer Q's @CathyBarr posed & you answer #Q3 too: What is different because of your work? What changed because you are here? #NPMC

@DennisFischman @CathyBarr It's the never-ending battle of showing value & answering so what! #NPMC

A3 Also, that orgs are not interchangeable, and that shopping for a better price for nonprofit results isn't going to work! #NPMC

Love this! MT@DennisFischman A3 Orgs are not interchangeable, & shopping for a better price for nonprofit results isn't going to work! #NPMC

We’re loving this convo about nonprofit #overhead. Keep sharing your thoughts folks! #NPMC

Hearing that stakeholders need to trust nonprofits, believe in difference we make & that impact requires investment. #NPMC

Also hearing that stakeholders need to believe we need room for innovation and long-term results. #NPMC

Trust, transparency, impact...Q4. What steps can we take in our day-to-day work, to walk that talk? #NPMC

@mo_flow Just like for-profits! #NPMC

A4 We are always inviting people in for tours. It opens so many eyes #NPMC

#npmc A4 don't engage in the 'race to the bottom'

Sometimes finding good measures to prove impact is a challenge too! #NPMC

A4 Don’t downplay need for #overhead. Essential to deliver mission (legal/accounting fees, utilities, office space, insurance, staff) #NPMC

@mo_flow A4 great question! a challenging and complicated reality that begins with modelling that walk based on our context! #NPMC

Ah, yes! RT @stephenf84 #npmc A4 don't engage in the 'race to the bottom'

@Kelgon cna you expand on that more please? #NPMC

A4 Tell stories. People go to overhead figures because they don't have a gut sense of what you do and why it works. Show them. #NPMC

A4 Celebrate and demonstrate your impact in your marketing comms and fundraising messages. #NPMC

A4. Have the courage to clearly articulate your goals and report on your progress towards them. #NPMC

True! MT @DennisFischman A4 Tell stories. People go to overhead because they don't have a gut sense of what you do and why it works. #NPMC

@stephenf84 Meaning, don't fudge your figure to show you are accomplishing everything on no overhead at all? :) #NPMC

A4. Build out the biz case for new projects and make the ROI clear #NPMC

@CathyBarr Any suggestions on encouraging colleagues along so M&C has the outcomes to report? #NPMC

A4 Don’t reinforce #overhead misperceptions with “100% of donation goes to the cause” statements. Hurts the cause in the long-term. #NPMC

A4. Push back when peers give us output to report? We need outcomes! #NPMC

@mayawalkca We are a job training facility for ppl w/ disabilities. Ppl dont understand until they see all we do in person #NPMC

This MT @ImagineCanada A4 Don’t reinforce #overhead misperceptions w/“100% of donation goes to the cause". Hurts cause in long-term. #NPMC

@DennisFischman #npmc also meaning don't give the impression that you can accomplish everything without any expenses.

@ImagineCanada What are some of the 'dos'...perhaps download your Toolkit? :) #NPMC

@Kelgon sounds awesome! Happy to hear of such work for our #SocialGood! Appreciate the reply #NPMC

Because we aren't magicians...MT @stephenf84 don't give the impression that you can accomplish everything without any expenses. #NPMC

@mo_flow #NPMC Best way in my opinion is for leaders to build it into performance objectives.

#NPMC Narrative Toolkit has tips #marcom & #fundraisers can use for org messaging  http://ow.ly/SAhEI   http://twitter.com/mo_flow/status/647106369405849600 …

@mo_flow "We have done so much for so long with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." #NPMC

We’ll share resources & links after the chat to help you with the ongoing #overhead convo #NPMC

Great resource - thanks! #NPMC  https://twitter.com/ImagineCanada/status/647106945426563072 …

Oh my, how did this happen Q5. Our time is almost up. What do you want to put into practice from today's chat? #NPMC

@CathyBarr @mo_flow how do you define #PerformanceObjectives? #NPMC

A5. I loved @ImagineCanada's "Don’t downplay NEED for #overhead." #NPMC

A5 Ask more Qs to find out how I can help ease the conversation about overhead #NPMC

Q4. plan and use marketing tactics with strong ROI vs. those less effective with high cost relative to fundraised $ or impact #NPMC

A5. Tell a story of innovation in our annual report. Demonstrate that we know how to think on our feet; show the outcomes when we do. #NPMC

Love RT @Kelgon A5 Ask more Qs to find out how I can help ease the conversation about overhead #NPMC

A5 #NPMC "What changed because you are here?" Good for us to explain about our individual marketing/comms work, too!

Awesome! MT @OPgrrl A5. Tell story of innovation in ann report. Demonstrate that we know how to think on our feet; outcomes when we do #NPMC

RT @DennisFischman A5 #NPMC "What changed because you are here?" Good for us to explain about our individual marketing/comms work, too!

@mo_flow A5 think I will have to reflect more on the #ElephantInTheRoom based on my context not that #NPMC is done!

While any other key takeaways come in... Save the date/time for next #NPMC Chat: Thursday, October 29 at 1 pm ET. #NPMC

#NPMC What other tools, resources, etc. would help you reframe the #overhead conversation? Let us know here or email mgrona@imaginecanada.ca

Thank you everyone for a great chat! Chat archives will be posted soon at  http://ow.ly/qmZRO  #NPMC

@CathyBarr and who gauges achievement? Self-assessment? HR? Team? #NPMC

A5. I have to figure out how to help #charities measure their impact. #NPMC

not sure if this is realistic but could there be new measures for #nonprofit health/impact to move overhead out of the limelight #NPMC

Thanks and congrats to #NPMC host @MoFloW / @NPMarCommunity for this engaging twitter chat about re-framing the #overhead convo

@mo_flow @ImagineCanada thanks for your #Leadership & #Facilitation today during #NPMC

#NPMC Recent piece by our own Devon Hurvid about the ways charities can change the #overhead conversation  http://ow.ly/SAgQs 

@shelleymayer did you see link @mo_flow provided before today's #NPMC? Some helpful stuff in there fwiiw

#NPMC @stephenf84 takes on Bigfoot, charity expenses and other urban legends in this post  http://ow.ly/SAiUV  #overhead

#NPMC Much of the #overhead convo is linked to #trust in charities & the need for good comms between donors & orgs  http://ow.ly/SAqDM 

#NPMC Great piece by Marina Glogovac of @canadahelps about why the admin ratio is a poor indicator of charity impact  http://ow.ly/SAgo9 

Thanks again! This was a great chat. See you again. #NPMC